Oliver SutherlandTitle: “Integrating the Mäori dimension with ‘mainstream’ science: 25 years on and what have we achieved?Manaaki Whenua, PO Box 69, Lincoln Email: sutherlando@landcare.cri.nz |
Talk
Oliver Sutherland spent 21 years in DSIR before joining Manaaki Whenua
Landcare research, where he is now Lincoln Regional Manager and Science Manager
(Biodiversity).
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AbstractWhile there is a long history between Mäori and päkehä social scientist and anthropologists, (often with Mäori as the object of the research), Mäori had very little relationship with the practitioners of biophysical research in the 1960s and 1970s. As Mäori assertions of cultural, social and political identities grew in this period, along with an emerging analysis of institutional racism in Aotearoa, all institutions were exposed to critical view including the institution of Crown-funded science. At the same time and within those institutions, some scientists were becoming increasingly uneasy about the monocultural nature of their work, and ad hoc projects were initiated bringing the expertise of researchers and technologists to bear on practical problems facing (mostly rural) Mäori. The Marae Enterprise Scheme provided critcal financial support. By 1980, DSIR was beginning to seriously examine its relationship with Mäori and in 1985 an unprecedented and landmark hui was held at Mt Albert Research Centre in which a wide grouping of mostly northern kaumatua led by Sir Graham Latimer and Hon. Matui Matiu Rata, met with the Director General of DSIR, Dr Jim Ellis, and other senior departmental managers. This led to the establishment of a DSIR/Mäori working party which provided a formal basis for many of the early ad hoc projects and which encouraged the next major initiative, an international Ethnobotanical Workshop - Te Wao Nui a Tane - which was held at Rehua Marae, Otautahi, in 1988. The workshop was convened jointly by DSIR Botany Division and the Commonwealth Science Council and drew together around 150 Mäori and scientists from Aotearoa, the Pacific and elsewhere in the Commonwealth. Te Wao Nui A Tane was very significant because it moved the focus from ‘scientists helping Mäori’ to one of ‘Mäori control over things Mäori’. Within a year, the Native Flora and Fauna claim (WAI 262) had been lodged with the Waitangi Tribunal, and plans were afoot to retrieve 9 varieties of traditional kümara from Japan. Soon thereafter the Matätua Declaration was drafted asserting tino rangatiratanga over Mäori intellectual property. Meanwhile, the science bureaucracy had accepted the reality of a Mäori dimension in ‘mainstream’ science. In 1991, the Ministerial Science Task Group, which advised the Government on the restructuring of publicly funded science and the establishment of the new Crown Research Institutes, made a number of recommendations advocating increased Mäori involvement in Crown-funded science and a kaumätua group was established to assist the Crown Research Institutes Implementation Steering Committee. The resulting CRIs were encouraged to widen their focus to include research relevant to Mäori and at least one Mäori member was appointed to the Board of Directors of each. At the same time, the Foundation for Research Science and Technology ring-fenced research funds for Mäori - focussed research and training. But although this led to the initiation of some significant projects aimed at Mäori outcomes and to some increase in Mäori actually working in the CRIs, the overall response of the science community since 1992 has been disappointing. During these two decades (1980-2000), molecular biology and genetic engineering were proceeding apace, but very much behind the scenes. So much so, that by 1998 when the Hazardous Substances and New Organisms (HSNO) Act came into effect, requiring extensive consultation and the active consideration of Mäori issues in the process of decision-making on genetic engineering research, most Mäori had little understanding of the concepts, practices and application of this new technology. This placed extreme pressure on those iwi who have such research taking place in their rohe to become familiar with gene technology and to weigh up its risks, costs and benefits. It has also prompted research organisations to initiate and foster relationships with hapü and iwi, and to bring Mäori into research planning, to an extent seldom previously contemplated. |
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Talk
Introduction
In this talk I intend to
review the past 25 years or so of the relationship between Mäori and the New
Zealand science community. I am going
to focus in particular on the role of the former Department of Scientific and
Industrial Research (DSIR) and the recently formed Crown Research
Institutes. My talk does not aim to
provide a comprehensive treatment, but rather on my perspective as one of the players!
The ad hoc
relationship – ‘helping Mäori’
In the 1970s some Mäori were
beginning to learn something of the NZ science community, the scope of its
research interests and the scale of its tax-payer-funded resources. The biggest research organisation was the
DSIR, of course. At about that time
Carmen Kirkwood of the Huakina Trust wrote to me saying “It’s not just finance
stopping my people returning to their homes, it’s knowledge of what they can do
with their lands ……..”. It was a very
common theme, at a time when, with unemployment in the cities growing, Mäori
who had left their tribal lands to seek work in the cities were now returning
to their turangawaewae, hoping to make a living there. This ‘return home’ led to the establishment
by the Department of Mäori Affairs of the Marae Enterprise schemes, and some of
those that the DSIR assisted with were (i) trials of pineapples and peanuts at
Te Hapua (Figs 1 – 3: click here to view),
(ii) trials of peanuts at Mataraua (Kaikohe), (iii) producing seed potatoes at
Ruatahuna and (iv) kumara growing and processing at Opotiki. In all these projects, local people provided
the labour, gaining horticultural or other skills, while DSIR provided
technical backup a (and moral support!).
I was involved, mostly in a facilitating role, in some of these
projects.
By
1980 it had become clear to me that the resources of DSIR were very unevenly
focussed, with little substantial research effort on projects of particular
interest to Mäori. I developed this
theme in a chapter of a report that I compiled (supported by three DSIR
colleagues) in 1980 which was the first really critical look at the social responsibility
of DSIR and how it was delivering benefit to New Zealand as a whole, with
particular emphasis on DSIR’s delivery to Mäori (Sutherland, Holloway, Roberts and Lodge, 1980: The Social
Responsibility of DSIR at Mt Albert. DSIR, internal report). Forwarded to DSIR Head Office, the report
was reviewed by Dr Graham Butler, Assistant Director General, who described it
as “….. an impressive exploratory report ….”.
But DSIR took little further action on it at the time.
Soon
thereafter, and elsewhere in DSIR, Botany Division had formed a relationship
with the Aotearoa Moananui-A-Kiwa Weavers – a national organisation of Mäori
and Pacific Island women. Dr Warwick
Harris, Director of the Division, attended an inaugural hui of the weavers’
group at Tokomaru Bay in 1983 and a follow-up at Te Teko in 1984, discussing
conservation of harakeke (flax) and other plants used in traditional
weaving. This laid the ground work for
DSIR taking responsibility for the maintenance and conservation of the RenJ Orchiston harakeke collection (which is still looked after by the
botanists at Manaaki Whenua).
Meanwhile, Dr Mike Leamy, Director of DSIR’s Soil Bureau, had invited
Wiremu Parker to assist that Division regarding research affecting Mäori.
Formalising the
relationship
These years of informal,
ad hoc collaboration, in which DSIR scientists provided their professional
input into marae-based self-help initiatives inevitably led to a more formal
expression of the department’s relationship with Mäori. In 1985, DSIR Head Office agreed to hold a
hui at Owairaka (Mt Albert) with Mäori leaders, and asked me to organise,
together with the Chairman of the Mäori Council, Sir Graham Latimer (Figs 4 -5,
click here to view). In the event, it was a pretty high powered
gathering. Sir Graham led a party of
Kaumätua including Hon. Matiu Rata, Ranginui Walker, Nganeko Minhinnick, Rev. Mäori
Marsden, Jim Nichols,
Sir Hugh Kawharu, Pita Rikys, Titewhai Harawira, Alan Baker, Carmen Kirkwood,
Säna Murray and Sir Norman Perry. On
the DSIR side the Director General, Jim Ellis, Assistant Director General John
Troughton, and divisional Directors Mike Leamy, Ted Bollard, Rod Bieleski and
John Longworth, together with senior science and support staff and
representatives of DSIR’s Mäori staff.
The hui was a landmark for
DSIR. It was the first time that the
Department had officially met with Mäori leaders and signalled DSIR’s
willingness to listen and respond. For
Mäori, it was the first time that they had been invited onto DSIR’s ‘territory’
and had had the opportunity to engage in dialogue with this unfamiliar but key
government department. The hui was a
great success and received considerable publicity as the media recognised the
significance of the occasion. The
following quotations give some idea of the constructive flavour that
characterised the hui:
Sir Graham Latimer: “It is timely to meet with DSIR because we
are living in a very changing world – there will be a lot of developments in
the next 10 or 15 years in which we must learn to work and understand one
another.”
Hon. Matiu Rata: “It is not a matter that you are
technocrats … what we want is culturally confident technocrats” “… bend a little. Instead of learning only the scientific names of all NZ plants,
it is not a bad idea to learn the Mäori names as well.”
Rev. Mäori Marsden: “… [can you] develop within the DSIR a branch
that will meet the particular needs of my people? … you are doing this for the
päkehä … I believe that no consideration has been given to the development of
Mäori science”
Titewhai Harawira: “You are asking for our help to give you
more credibility. The work of
scientists has never been for the betterment of Mäori..
.… DSIR’s
recommendations to date have been disastrous for our people. Look at the [Glenbrook] Steel mill … If you
are really committed to change, take our people on now.”
Sir Norman Perry: “May the DSIR learn to appreciate the Mäori dimension, and may Mäoridom listen for confirmation
of their traditional beliefs and be open to welcome new discoveries which DSIR
will surely make.”
Dr John Troughton: “This meeting is progress because we have to
talk together before we can walk together; and we have to walk before we can
run.”
At
its conclusion, the hui endorsed the newly drafted ‘DSIR Consultation Process’
which read:
_________________ (Overhead) __________________
*********DSIR Consultation Process *****************
Objective
To consult with the Mäori community to broaden and enhance the context
within which DSIR operates.
Consultation Principles
(1) People are the priority in framing the
Department’s strategy.
(2) The Mäori people are acknowledged as
tangata whenua.
(3) New Zealand is recognised as essentially a
bicultural and then a multicultural society.
(4) The diverse economic, social and cultural,
perspectives in New Zealand generate different, equally valid, value systems.
(5) Progress will be made through the exchange
and wise use of the accumulated knowledge of all communities.
(6) The Treaty of Waitangi is acknowledged as
a basis of national policy.
Process for Consultation
(1) New Zealanders, in totality, should
participate in the process of developing DSIR strategy.
(2) The strategy should reflect the above six
consultation principles.
_________________________________________
Rather cautiously worded,
the document acknowledged the Treaty of Waitangi and provided a framework for
ongoing input by Mäori into the government’s science business.
The first major event
resulting from the 1985 Owairaka hui was a Commonwealth Science Council (CSC)
workshop on ethnobotany, co-organised by the CSC and Botany Division,
DSIR. The ‘workshop’ rapidly became a
5-day hui as the host organisers Botany Division Director Warwick Harris,
botanist Murray Parsons and I enhanced the role of Mäori and Pacific people in
the hui. The hui of around 200
scientists and traditional practïtïoners stands as a highly significant event
in the history of science in New Zealand.
Held at Rehua Marae, Otautahi (Christchurch) it was the first coming
together of both traditional (Mäori and other Polynesian) and western sciences,
giving both ‘parties’ their first insights into the knowledge and technologies
of the other. (see Harris and Kapoor,
1990: Nga Mahi Mäori o Te Wao Nui a Tane - Contributions to a workshop on
ethnobotany. DSIR 209:pp.) These insights contained some surprises. In particular, research on native species
and their possible commercialisation caught the attention of Mäori who caucused
to debate the issue with major concern focussing on the commercialisation of
traditional knowledge. The feelings
were captured in the comment of Arapera Blank who said “Scientists are naïve
people. Botanists and those experimenting
with natural resources need to be alerted to what can happen with their
findings. They could be used by
multinational companies – patented in the US as a miraculous cure. What comes back to the indigenous
people?” The hui made several
recommendations including:
- “Science must flourish for the benefit of
all people, not just the few”
- “Science must be accountable to the
people and must establish research priorities by means of a thorough and
constant consultation with the people.”
Mäori Control over things Mäori
Exposing ‘western science’
to Mäori eyes as it did, the hui at Rehua was the catalyst for four highly
significant initiatives each underpinned by the new Mäori demand for control
over matters in which they had a key, indeed a paramount interest. The Treaty of Waitangi concept of tino
rangatiratanga, Mäori control over things Mäori, was now focussed on the
biophysical sciences.
1. Te Hokinga Mai o Nga
Kumara
One story recounted at the hui
at Rehua was that of the major collection of sweet potato varieties assembled
by Dr Douglas Yen of the Crop Research Division, (CRD), DSIR, Otara. CRD maintained the collection for many years
but in 1969 decided that it could no longer continue to do so, and it was
passed for safekeeping to several overseas research groups, including the
Tsukuba National Agricultural Centre, outside Tokyo, Japan. The collection included the oldest and most
culturally significant ‘pre-european’ cultivars of kumara and on hearing from Doug Yen at Rehua of the fate of the
collection and its dispersal to ‘nga hau e wha’ (the four winds), Dell Wihongi
of the Pü Hao Rangi Trust decided to retrieve the 9 varieties most significant
to Mäori . With some encouragement (but
not money) from DSIR, and derision rather than support from the government of
the day, Dell eventually caught the attention of the world-famous botanist, Dr
David Bellamy, who funded the travel to Japan for Dell and other Kaumätua Jerry
Moana, Hori Sutherland and Adelaide Cherrington, where they were given tubers
of the valued varieties (Figs 6 – 8, click here to view).
Dell’s ope (party) arrived
back at Mangere to a powhiri at Te Puea Marae attended by David Bellamy amongst
others. Subsequently, the kumara were
multiplied and handed on to other iwi keen to grow them.
2. Te Wao Nui a Tane
National Ethnobotanical Garden
In 1990, Dell Wihongi,
together with others in the Pü Hao Rangi Trust, negotiated access to land in
Manukau City to establish Te Wao Nui a Tane National Ethnobotanical
Garden. Dell’s vision was a garden
containing all of the native plants valued by Mäori; grouped according to their
traditional uses. Although gaining
considerable support as a concept, funding such a major project was a daunting
task and in the end the project lapsed.
3. Wai 262: Native Flora and
Fauna Claim
The hui at Rehua Marae
brought into sharp focus the issue of Mäori intellectual property rights and
ownership of traditional knowledge and the treasured species themselves. Three of those present at the hui – Säna
Murray (Ngati Kuri), Dell Wihongi (Te Rarawa) and John Hippolite (Ngati Koata),
later joined by Tama Poata (Ngati Porou) and Witi McMath (Ngati Wai) lodged a
claim with the Waitangi Tribunal in 1991 (‘Wai 262’) which claimed
rangatiratanga over the native species of Aotearoa, and traditional knowledge
associated with those species. In the
years since it was first lodged, the Wai 262 has become a landmark claim with major
implications for the scientific community, as well as for those in the business
of commercial development of native species or products derived from them. After languishing for years in the “too hard
basket”, the claim is slowly being dealt with and whatever its outcome, has
changed the way ‘western science’ researches and develops native species
forever.
4. Mataatua Declaration
This new consciousness in
New Zealand over the exploitation of traditional knowledge paralleled similar
concerns among indigenous people world wide, and after attending an
international meeting on ownership of intellectual property, Aroha Mead (Ngati
Awa) returned in 1993 home and convened a national hui focussed on the
issue. The outcome was the Mataatua
Declaration which recognised, inter alia, that indigenous people are guardians
of their customary knowledge and have the right to protect and control the
dissemination of that knowledge.
The Declaration clearly
represents one more explicit assertion of Mäori control over things Mäori.
Science
Establishment Responds
While the Mäori world was
developing the above initiatives, the science establishment was also moving
forward. The dialogue between Mäori and
DSIR, which started at the 1985 Owairaka hui continued and resulted, four years
later, in the establishment of the DSIR Mäori Study Awards and the Mäori
Business Development Scheme in the 1989 budget. These new funding initiatives succeeded in encouraging more Mäori
into science careers, and Mäori entrepreneurs to join forces with researchers
in developing new business ventures (Fig 9, click here to view).
The schemes were successful, but with a change of government were axed
in 1991.
Meanwhile, individual DSIR
divisions (and some other research organisations) were making their own moves
to respond to the prompting increasing Mäori demands for a more responsive
science community that resulted from the 1985 Owairaka hui. As just one example, DSIR Plant Protection,
publisher of the Fauna of New Zealand series, made a landmark decision in 1991
to relaunch the journal as a bilingual publication Ko Te Aitanga Pepeke o
Aotearoa (Fig 10, click here to
view).
Reorganisation
of science into CRIs
In 1990 the government
signalled its intention to disestablish DSIR and other government-funded
research organisations and to create 10 Crown Research Institutes, and it
established a Ministerial Task Group in 1991 to make it happen. Mäori who had been working with DSIR for the
previous 5-10 years were apprehensive that gains that had been made towards
incorporating a Mäori dimension into the mainstream science establishment might
be lost in the reshuffle. Considerable
lobbying by Dell Wihongi, the late John Hippolite, Dr Michael Walker and others
led to the Ministerial Task Group including the ‘Mäori issue’ in their
recommendations for the science reforms.
Their report recommended:
·
the inclusion of Mäori on the CRI Implementation
Steering Group (which would oversee the implementation of the reforms)
·
the appointment of a minimum of 2 Mäori to each CRI
Board of Directors
·
Mäori access to the Public Good Science Fund and to
education/training in science and technology.
In the event, the government’s
and CRIs’ responses to these recommendations was half-hearted. Certainly, a Kaumätua group led by Charles
Mohi, was formed to assist Sir James Stewart’s CRI Implementation Steering
Committee. But no organisation for
Mätauranga Mäori was established and each of the original CRI Boards of
Directors only included a single Mäori.
Some CRIs have established in-house scholarships and fellowships for
Mäori students and one or two have actively sought and recruited Mäori
staff. Also, a few, mainly small,
research projects addressing specifically Mäori issues (ethnobotany, tuna,
kukupa and tïtï management, and land use planning) have been initiated by CRIs
or universities. Overall, most of the
CRIs have not given any priority to working closely with Mäori . Mainstream science continues to be a very
päkehä affair, with funding hard to gain for research of particular interest to
Mäori . Certainly FRST allocates
funding for ‘Mäori Research’, but the money available is paltry and criteria
for allocating funding are still ‘science excellence’ and ‘relevance’, criteria
which Mäori researchers are often not able to meet. Hence, only about 0.1% of the $350M PGSF was allocated to Mäori
researchers in 2000. Of greater impact,
has been the Tuapapa Putaiao Fellowships, established by FRST, which have
produced some very good PhD students who are now becoming highly sought after
as the Mäori dimension in mainstream science slowly grows.
The
Challenge of Genetic Engineering
At the very time when, at
the 1985 hui, DSIR Assistant Director General John Troughton was saying “… we
have to talk together before we can walk together and we have to walk before we
can run …”, DSIR’s molecular biologists were already ‘up and running’ five
floors above the room where the hui was being held. Genetic engineering was a reality worldwide with New Zealand
scientists already isolating and shifting genes around from species to species
– into bacteria, mice, tobacco and white clover for example. But no dialogue had begun at all with Mäori
on this new technology and its implications and so when, 10 years later, the
Hazardous Substances and New Organisms Act (1996) was passed into legislation,
regulating genetic engineering research and requiring the involvement of
tangata whenua, Mäori mostly knew nothing of the science of biotechnology, its
risks and benefits. Nevertheless, the
Environmental Risk Management Authority (ERMA), which the HSNO Act empowered as
decision-maker on transgenic research, was required to “take into account” the
principles of the Treaty of Waitangi and the impact of such research on Mäori
culture, values and taonga. This
required both the researchers and ERMA to consult with Mäori, but in the 3
years since the act was implemented, we have seen all parties struggle to come
to terms with what the legislation requires.
Perhaps had the dialogue really started in 1985 (or before) things might
have been different. In the event, many
Mäori have become very distrustful of the research and the researchers. This chasm between science and Mäori has
left many Mäori anguished over the implications of transgenic research,
particularly that involving human genes, for their cultural and spiritual
values. To a greater or lesser extent,
all scientists are caught up in this lack of trust.
Conclusions
Looking
back over the past 25 years, I see little substantial change in the science
establishment. There is scant
recognition of Mätauranga Mäori, little support for whare wänanga and barely
any evidence of a Mäori dimension in mainstream science. Indeed there were probably more truly
collaborative and Mäori–controlled research projects initiated in the 1970s and
1980s than now. Highly contestable processes
and rigid criteria for research funds (FRST, DOC, MfE, MAF) severely restrict
Mäori access. CRI delivery on the Mäori
component of the Good Employer provisions of the CRI Act (which require inter
alia CRIs to “… take account of the aims and aspirations of Mäori people …”)
has been patchy at best, and CRIs have been reactive rather than proactive in
their dialogue with Mäori with often the first step being taken in respect of
New Organisms research because the (HSNO) law requires it before the research
can proceed. Finally, genetic engineering
stands as a major challenge to the development of a trusting and collaborative
relationship between Mäori and mainstream science.
Discussion
Question/Comment
(Del Wihongi)
How
are you going to bridge the gap between genetically modified engineering and
Mäori people, Oliver?
OS - Well it is something that
causes ERMA a great deal of anguish. We
have, as you know, established a group, Nga Kaihautu Tikanga Taiao and Murray
Parsons is here as a member of that group.
There is an awful lot of catching up to simply learning what the
technology is all about: What does it
do? What doesn’t it do? What are the risks associated with it? What are the benefits associated with
it? Nga Kaihautu has just finished
completing a very professional 20 minute video aimed entirely at Mäori
audiences to start to bridge that gap, Del.
But the only way it is going to be bridged is kanohi ki kanohi. That is the challenge to the science
community and they have failed to date.
It is no good now saying, which they do, “yeah, well you know your
insulin was made from human genes and bacteria.” It is true, but it doesn’t actually help people understand the
bigger picture.
Question/Comment
(Ken McAnergney, representing SILNA owners Rau Murihiku Whenua Mäori)
Kia
ora tatou. I am chairman of the
Rowallon Alton Mäori Incorporation in Western Southland. Some years ago the Rowallon Alton Incorporation
entered into a formal contractual agreement with the School of Forestry,
Canterbury University, to facilitate science in the SILNA estate. There were many, many reasons for this, but
there are two things I’d like to talk about.
One is the difficulty that we had in getting science funding through
FRST. I felt that that was principally
because people who peer reviewed the application, which was very long and very
difficult to do, found all sorts of ways of knocking it. I got the impression from doing a little bit
of research and getting an inkling of who these people were, that there seems
to be a professional jealousy that extends through science. I suppose that is typical of all our
communities. I find it very disturbing.
The
second thing I would like to say is that the Rowallon Alton Incorporation
suddenly, over a period of time, found that scientists were actually real
people. They found that having science
going on our land and having young, keen students coming to take advantage of our
forest and our land and looking at it was having a rub-off effect. I thought that this was a very good aspect
of the joint venture that we moved into because my hope is that some of those
young people will be able to come back and look at our land in the future and
make comments about it.
Question/Comment
(Edward Ellison, Te Runanga o Ngäi Tahu)
Kia
ora Oliver. This was a very interesting
presentation. Toward the end of your presentation
you were talking about the genetically engineered processes going on. You will be aware that there is a Royal
Commission charged with going around consulting with iwi. Well, I don’t believe there is one hapü,
whänau or iwi included in the 120 or so to be talked to. They are using the Mäori Council as the
process so that shows you just how huge the gap is in terms of understanding
and, of how to relate and talk to the Mäori community. Its very concerning even in this day, that
that is the level of understanding. I
agree with you. I think the genetically
engineered technology is actually going to outstrip what’s been done on the
last 10, 20 years anyhow to build bridges.
OS - Yes, I think that is pretty
disappointing. I wasn’t aware exactly
who the Royal Commission were seeing.
That is probably one thing that, at least ERMA can’t be blamed for
because we didn’t set up the Commission.
But that is very disappointing.
Question/Comment
(Murray Parsons)
Tënä
koutou, Tënä koutou. Del, Tënä koe,
Säna, Tënä koe. I am really delighted
to see you both. Tënä koe Oliver. There is something that concerns me greatly. As Oliver said, I am on Nga Kaihautu Tikanga
Taiao, the Mäori Advisory Committee to ERMA.
Nga Kaihautu has given advice - what we believe our people are
saying. Some of that advice is please
go back to the people. In some cases
that has happened. In some long drawn
out cases it has happened. But are the
people being heard? In an effort to
give an easy recommendation to ERMA, the last report that Nga Kaihautu wrote
suggested that the hearing should not be held in Wellington. Not because Wellington is not the font of
all knowledge. We recommended the
hearing should be held in Auckland so that the people up near there could participate. I am really sad to stand and say that the
hearing was still held in Wellington.
Who is prepared to reach out for that dialogue? I hear what Del is saying about the gap in
genetic engineering. There is a Western
perception that will pervade this hui.
There is also a Mäori perception of this world of ours. We share the world. There is no bridge between those two
perceptions. There is no bridge at all,
and all I hear is - “Come over to our
side. Come over to the way we think. We think the right way. Why don’t you come over?” Look at genetic engineering. Oliver says it’s inevitable. Why the hell is it inevitable? We have mined Papatuanuku for all these
resources that are all around us. The
steel chairs you are sitting on came from her bowels. Now we are going to start to mine Tane Mahuta, the creator. And what’s more, we are going to mine it so
that we can have it. Tënä koutou katoa.
OS - Murray, I accept all that
you say except one thing. That one
thing is that I said genetic engineering was inevitable because I am thinking
mostly of the medical uses. It is
unstoppable in the medical arena and indeed many of the medical advances that
are happening at the moment, particularly in respect of cancer and other
research, do take advantage of that technology. So we need to think of the full breadth of that technology and
that is the sort of inevitability that I am talking about. I don’t think it’s inevitable that we should
have Monsanto growing its genetically engineered wheat all over New
Zealand. That, I don’t think, is
inevitable.
Question/Comment
(Säna Murray)
Kia
ora, Oliver. Kia ora te tangata
whenua. Mihi tenei ki a koutou
katoa. I have just this to say Oliver. Thank you for the past 25 years you have
assisted our people way up in Te Rerenga Wairua - you and Dr. Parson over here
and others. In the research to utilise
our land for the continuation of the knowledge of tupuna Mäori, we also had
applied for some assistance from the Scientific Department. I do believe this word ‘genetically
engineered’ is very hard for elders like us, the Mäori, to understand. So I thank Murray and Oliver and all the
others who assist us. We work together
with Del opposing things that would actually dispose of the matua, the parent
of whatever is naturally growing in Aotearoa, naturally growing in Tane mahuta
for its medicinal value. I go back to
the fibre, the harakeke. The harekeke
that weaves us all together, I do believe.
The harekeke is the taure here of all the waka, of our canoe. I hear the plea by Murray that Mäori be
involved in the area where the future generations will gain the knowledge from
that higher level that all of you are in today. We, the Mäori, still believe our harekeke should never have been
touched just for ornamental reasons to beautify the gardens over in
England. It should have been left alone
until such time that everyone would know the medicinal value, the beauty and
everything in Aotearoa growing now. And
I thank you all for this opportunity to thank the tangata whenua. No kone no tetahi o toku tupuna no roto o
tenei rohe, o Muriwhenua, o Murihiku. No muriwhenua ahau. Kai ora koutou katoa te waka o Maui. Tënä koutou, Tënä koutou, Tënä koutou katoa.
Question/Comment
(Kelly Davis, Ngäi Tahu)
Oliver,
I was impressed with your presentation and the message you are sending out to
the science world. But I have one
question of you. What is the
participation of Mäori on the ERMA Committee?
Why can’t we, as Mäori, put M in front of ERMA and have the Mäori
Environmental Risk Management Authority?
I have said this in a forum that Murray’s been in before. I still think it. I listen to our kuia here talk about the mätauranga, those things
that we know about. The harekeke and
those other things we know about Te Ao a Tane.
We know those things, but when do we get the opportunity to sit and
discuss the modifications that are going on?
How can we adequately present ourselves to the science world and say
this is the mamae we have.
OS - When ERMA was first mooted,
when the Act was just about to be passed, there were going to be six members of
the Authority and there were going to be no Mäori. I was one person who was asked by the Minister to be a member of
it and I said that I wasn’t willing to be part of an organization like that -
that did not have Mäori members. Simon
Upton was the Minister at the time. He
then he decided to come up with an Authority of eight members of which one was
Mäori. That was Terry Lomax from up
North, a scientist with Forestry Research Institute. As a result of concerns of mine and some others within the
Authority, and with the prompting from Nga Kaihautu, we went to the Minister
and asked for the number of Mäori on ERMA to be increased. It fell on deaf ears. However, there was a vacancy that came up
and that vacancy was then filled by Colin Montelle from Ngäi Tahu. That is
where we stand at the moment. On the
Authority there are six Päkehä, two Mäori.
Two more than it started with.
But I am acutely aware of the things that you are saying. But don’t forget, we are appointed by the
Government of the day. So if you don’t
like the makeup of the Authority, don’t blame us. Get rid of me and put on Murray, or something like that. But that is the only way to change it. We are appointed by the Minister for the
Environment.