A Goodly Dialogue Between Knowledge and Simplicity

Anon

TextBaseEarlyTudorEnglish
GoodDBK6806
2008
STC 6806
Ringler 6806 and TP 497. UMI microfilm reel 378.

A Goodly Dyalogue betwene Knowledge and Symplicitie
London: Anthony Scoloker and William Seres,[1548].



Composition Date: 1548 [STC].







n[o]tnot] ndt 1548 to man but to god be all glorynot] ndt 1548
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A Goodly Dyalogue betwene Knowledge and Symplicitie.
IMPRINTED at London, by Anthony_Scoloker And Willyam_Seres. Dwellyng wythout Aldersgate.
Cum Gratia et priuilegio ad Imprimendum solum.
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Knoledge

GOd saue you my frende simplicitie
I am glad of your good welfare
Ye are ryght welcome vnto the Cytie
For here ye are a straunger very rare
5 I knowe the cause of your hyther repare
It draweth nowe towarde the terme
Ye haue some matters for to declare
And what they be fayne wolde I learne. Symplicitie is a straunger in a cytie.


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Simplicite

I thanke you Knowledge of your good-wyll
10 And of your kyndnes without desert /
But I cam hether for no suche skyll /
As ye haue vttered vppon your parte
But thys I thought wyth all myne harte
When I came hether vnto the terme
15 Wolde God I had suffred at home great smarte
Your facyons be so straunge to learne. Simplicite is sory that euer he cam in that cite, it is so full of noughtynes.


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Knoledge

I praye you syr what is your grefe
Hath any man here you offended?
Shewe it shortly in wordes brefe
20 And if I cane I wyll see it amended
Your cause by me shall be defended
I wyllbe with you all this terme
My counsell towardes you shalbe bended
Your symplenes to teache and learne. Knoledge desyreth to knowe his grefe / and promyseth to helpe hym.

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Simplicite

25 Mary Syr offended I am in-dede
And that in conscience ryght greuously
I praye God it shortlye be remedyed
That London sinke not moch maruell I,
For here is nought els but heresy
30 Blasphemy and slaunder all out of frame
That one man affirmeth an-other doth deny
Against the honour of Gods holy name. Simplicite thynketh that London will sinke for synne


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Knoledge

Ah Syr I knowe the cause well ynough then
Of your great grefe in your conscience
35 And I am ryght glad, for aboue all men
I haue much desyred to haue your presence
Content you, and shortly ye shal haue intelligence
Thogh as yet for a time, somthing be out of frame
At length amongest vs shall be no difference
40 Concerning the honour of Gods holy name.


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Symplicitie.

Frend Knowledge, that is a thyng impossible
That euer in one we shulde agree
So longe as we haue thys beble bible beble bible: a play on 'Bible' /'bibble-babble'?
Nay Nay Knowledge, that will not bee
45 Do ye not heare and dailye see
Howe men olde custome despyse and blame?
Whych thinge is greatly as thinketh me
Against the honor of Gods holy name. The Byble is cause of contrauersy. Olde custome is blamed.

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[Knol]edg
Knoledg] edg 1548

Though olde custome hath vs longe ledde
50 Agaynst Gods Gospell manyfestlye
Is it not mete that it shulde be for_bedde
And also despysed vtterly?
Yf truth and olde custome dysagree
Shall not trueth olde custome dispise and blame
55 And make hym subiecte to Gods veritie
Yis, that is the honour of Gods holy name If olde custome be against the gospell it must geue place.


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simplicitie.

Wyll ye (o knowledge) be of that minde?
Wyll ye be of that sort and gyse?
Wyll ye beginne newe wayes to fynde
60 And olde custome cleane to despyse?
Howe saye ye, were not our fathers wyse?
[Were] they not lerned? ye be to blame Were] Where 1548
Let theyr example your mynde suffyse
Concernyng the honour of Gods holy name The custome of our forfathers is to be obserued,


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Knoledg

65 Unto our fathers God be mercifull
They lyued in darkenes and we in lyght
All they were vnder a cloude moost wonderfull
Of the trueth, they had no parfect syght
But I saye, through Gods power and myght
70 That cloude is cleared and set in ryght frame
And all fained fantasies it shall put to flyght
To the honour and prayse of Gods holy name Our fathers as paul teacheth were vnder a cloude, and sawe not the truthe,

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simplicitie.

Wyll ye gyue me leaue to aske you a question
And with my boldnes not to be angrye
75 I wolde be sory in any condicion /
For to offende you, ye maye beleue me
And I desyre you euen hartelye
Shewe vnto me your opinion agayne
For we two I thynke shall not agre
80 Concernyng the honour of gods holy name. The ciuilitie of simplicitie.


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Knoledg

Aske what ye wyll, and by Gods grace
As well as my wyttes shall serue me
I shall make answere in lytle space
As I haue lerned in gods veritie
85 Be not afrayd, but speake at lybertie
What-so-euer ye saye, none shall ye blame
For surely I trust your minde to satysfye
Concernyng the honour of Gods holy name the gentell answer of Knoledg


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simplicitie.

Howe saye you (I pray the) to the holy masse
90 That long hath bene vsed of antiquitie
An[d] for many other thynges I let passe) And] An 1548
As of masse of requiem and scala_cely of masse] of masse of masse 1548
That delyuered our frendes soules from purgatory
Wyth many mo masses then I can name
95 Of the .v. woundes, and of corpus_Christi
To the honour and praise of Gods holy name The first question is of masses

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Knoledge

Such masses / I say, are but Idolatrye
Which the Romysh Antichryst dyd inuent
To blynd our eyes wyth fayned ypocrysy
100 And all to get money was hys intent
What greater blasphemye was euer ment?
If masses shal saue vs, Christs death is in vayn
That suffred for vs hys flesh to be torment
Honour therfore no masse, but Gods holy name that all masses satisfactory are Idolatrye of the bisshop of Romes inuenting.


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Simplicite

105 How say ye then vnto the Sacrament
Which all ye go about to denye
In the hoost, to be bodely present
Fyrst as he was borne of mary
And vppon the crosse as he dyd dye
110 If ye speake agaynst thys, ye are to blame
Thys our fathers beleued, and so do I
To the honour and prayse of Gods holy name. Whether Chrystes body be really present in the sacrament.


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Knoledge

The sacrament is an holy thyng
But the vse therof was farre out of frame
115 And that selfe body on the crosse hangyng
And borne of mary that blessed dame
In hys corporall presens I say playne
Is not there present, surely I thynke the same
Who teacheth contrary, his doct[r]yne is vayne doctryne] doctyne 1548
120 And great dyshonour to Gods holy name. that Chryste is not bodely present in the sacrament.

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simplicitie

Ah Iesus mercy what do I here?
Is not he present in the sacrament?
How say you? Is not God present alwhere?
Wyll ye deny the new Testament?
125 And if he be alwhere, I say verament
He is in the sacrament I abyde by the same
Your deuelysh doctryne the deuell dyd inuent
To the great dishonour of Gods holy name. God is present alwhere and therfore his body is in the sacrament


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Knoledge

Yis syr God is present in very dede
130 As well all-where, as in the Sacrament
But that vnderstand in hys Godhead
And for example learne thys presydent
The soule and the body be thynges different
But the body destroyed / the soule doth yet remaine
135 And ye se not the soule, nether yet in the sacrament
Ye se Gods body, but blaspheme hys name. that God is present all-where and is not seen, as the soule of man is inuis[i]bleinuisible] inuisuble 1548 and incorruptibleinuisible] inuisuble 1548


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Simplicite

Mary syr that is abominable heresy
Is thys your new le[ar]nyng and doctryne? learnyng] leranyng 1548
What thyng can be sayd that is more blasphemy
140 Ye shall neuer persuade me brother myne
Doth not the priest from tyme to tyme
Lift vp Gods body, and shew vs the same?
In fourme of bread, yea, we se it wyth oure eyen
To the honour and prayse of Gods holye name. That the prest lifts vp Gods body in the sacrament

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Knoledg

145 Ye are deceaued poore symplicitie
For Chryst being offred ones fro all
Shall neuer be offred agayne, beleue me.
Our masses therfore, are most Idolatry of all
Hauyng no grounde in scrypture at all
150 If ye say, ye se Chryst lyft vp in the same
You commyt most shamefull ydolatry wythall
To the great dyshonour of Gods holy name. Christ offred ones can not be offred againe, masse is ydolatrie and hath no ground in scriptur.


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simplicitie.

Our curates command vs in payn of dampnacion
To beleue that Chrystes blessed bloude and body
155 In the sacrament is present, of the same facyon
As he suffred / dyed, and was borne of mary
And who-soeuer doth say the contrary
To the bysshops, they do accuse the same
As one commyttyng most shamefull heresy
160 To the great dyshonour of Gods holy name Curates commaunde to beleue that Gods body is present in the sacrament.


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Knoledg

Your carles Curats whome custume hath blynded custume] cunstume 1548
Do not well in that thyng knowe what they saye
But loke in the Gospell and ye shall fynde it
The selfe-same Iesus borne of a maye
165 That was Crucified, dyed, and rose the iij daye
On hys fathers ryght hand now sitteth playne
Hys body is only there present I saye
Who sayth contrarye, doth blaspheme hys name Curates are blind Christ is on the righte hand of the father

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Simplicite

Howe saye you to our fasting-dayes?
170 Are they not moost shamefully abused?
And what thinke you of our holydayes
Whych are not mete to be refused
Both palmes and asshes are cleane confused
And offeryng of Candels / organe wyth them
175 Are not all these styll to be vsed
To the honour and prayse of Gods holy name? A question of ceremonies.


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Knoledg.

I saye no daye more one then other
By Gods woorde is commaunded to fast
And kepe well your Saboth-daye my Brother
180 All other holydayes are in waste.
Your palmes and asshes cleane out-cast
Yf ye offer to stocke and stone, ye are to blame
They are all but fayned lyke the wyndes blast
And against the honour of Gods holy name. that fasting and holidaies made by man, are of non effect and all such-lyke ceremonies.


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Simplicite

185 Say ye, that fayned is the holy crucifix?
And despyse ye the holy priests absolution?
Is Gods body a fayned God in the pyx?
Dyd not our beades stirre vs to deuotion?
Do not the saintes make intercessyon?
190 Doth not our fastinge our flesh tame?
Our holy-bread and holy-water gyue vs monicion
To honoure and prayse Gods holy name. A question of the rood-priests absolucion, of the god in the boxe, and such other

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Knoledge

Of the crucifix an Idoll ye made
And your pristes vsurped Gods absolution pristes: =priests
195 The bread in the box is no God I sayde
And that your beades are very superstition
Your sayntes can make no intercessyon
Your fayned fastyng can not your flesh tame
Your water and bread, by coniuration
200 Are great dyshonour to Gods holy name An answere to the same.


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Simplicitie

And was it not well wyth vs thynke ye
Whan we vsed our pylgrymage for deuotion?
To holy sayntes that wrought wonderfully
Great maruels passyng mans expectation
205 And they helped vs in our perturbation
Almost all-thyng that we asked we dyd obteyne
How say ye? Was not this a godly fation
To the honour and prayse of Gods holy name. if pylgrymage was not good and the sayntes wrought miracles.


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Knoledge

That fatyon is deuelysh and cleane contrary
210 To Gods commaundement, as ye shall see
God sayd and commaunded vs very strayghtly
Thou shalt haue none other God but me
If ye worshyp ydols of stone or of tree
Ye or thy[n]ke they can helpe you ye are to blame
215 For then ye depryue God of hys glory
To the great dyshonour of hys holy name. that pylgrymage was deuelysh and against goddes commaundement.

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Simplicity

Is fasting and prayer of no effect
Dyd not Chryst to vs make mencion
In his gospell by wordes dyrect
220 That we shulde vse them for good intencyon?
Yet some men saye ye despise the same
And amongest your-selues ye haue great dissention
To the great dishonour of Gods holy name, yf fasting and prayer are of none effect


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Knoledge

Yes, fasting and prayer are much requisite
225 As Chryst hym-selfe dyd to vs examplefye
But I saye in scrypture it is not recyte
To fast or praye any-tyme proprelye
But watch ye and pray ye continually
Whan the fleshe doth prycke, the[n] make it tame then] them 1548
230 Wyth fasting, but beware of ypocrysye
For that is dyshonour to Gods holy name. fasting and prayer are necessary / but no speciall tyme is therto appointed by scriptures.

I praye God amend all that is amys
In the worlde was neuer so much dyuysyon
One is of that sorte, an-other is of thys
235 And eachone dyuers in hys opinyon
Ye learned men fyrst must agree in one
That after your example, ourselues we may frame
Then shall we not swarue in any condicion
But prayse all together Gods holy name. simplycitie. prayeth that all abuses may be amended men may agre in one.

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Knoledge

240 And I pray God wyth you in that thyng
To set at one all our diuision
As to hys glory shalbe perteynyng
That all we may agree in one
And no man styck to one opinion
245 But as Gods worde shall teach hym the same
Then shall we not swarue in any condition
But prayse all together Gods holy name Knoledge agreeth to simplicities praier.

Syr in-dede all the[se] are aboue my reason these] theys 1548
And ye be a man well learned, men saye
250 Wyll ye therfore take payne wyth me this season
My combred conscyence to quyte and stay?
Ye say we shulde fast, ye say we shulde pray
And the supper of the lord, ye prayse much the same
To teach me to vse the same after the ryght way
255 To the honour and prayse .etc. Simplicite desyereth to be taught the ryght way to fast, praye and to receyue the Lordes supper.

Yea, that I wyll wyth all my harte
That is the thyng that I euer pretende
If diligently ye wyll aduerte
My diligence towardes you is bended
260 Your symplenes hath not me offended
Neyther my boldenes you, I thynke the same
And I trust your grefe shortly to ende it
To the honour and prayse of Gods holye name. the good-wyll of knoledge towards simplicitie.

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Knoledg

Fyrst to your question how ye shuld pray
265 In the .vi. of Math. lerne Chrystes doctrine
Pray not for prayse, as Ipocrites do I say
But in thy chambre, se thyselfe thou declyne
By thy chambre / thy conscyence thou must defyne
And if that be clene, beleue well the same
270 God wyll rewarde the / by his power diuine
To the honour and prayse of Gods holye name. How w[e] shulde praye.right margin trimmed right margin trimmed


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Knoleg[e]

But in much babblyng esteme no felici[t]ie felicitie] felicicie 1548
Lyke as dyd the Pharysees most blynde
Your Ladyes psalter was mere ypocrysie
275 By this place of scrypture, plainly we fynde
Your beades brought prayer cle[n]e out of kynde
Christe taught a prayer, let vs vse the same
Deuoutly to be sayd with harte and mynde
To the honour and prayse of Gods holye name. we are not hear[d] for our many pr[ai]ers, but for the [wor]de sayde from t[he] harte.right margin trimmed right margin trimmed


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Knoledg

280 Your mattens and euensong in a straunge tongue
Your patched masses full of papistry
Your shamefull sorte of cerimon[i]es dome cerimonies] cerimones 1548
As knillyng, kneling and other many knillyng: see OED s.v. knell, 'to ring a bell'
Do they any-thing you teach to edifie?
285 And to pray and thynke not, is but in vayne
The Godly prophet herein agreeth with me
All these are dyshonour to Gods holy name. matens a[nd] evensong i[n] a straung[e] tong and do[me] ceremon[i]es are b[ut] vayne.right margin trimmed right margin trimmed

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Knoledge

When thou fasteth (sayth Chryst) be not sorye
As the ypocrytes whyche pretendyng grauitie,
290 Dyd dysfigure theyr faces supersticiously
That to mens syght they myght seme holy
But when thou fastest, do it secretely
Not for worldes glory, but thy flesh to tame
Than God shall rewarde the aboundauntlye
295 To the honour and prayse of hys holy name. How we shuld fast


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Knoledg

But thys is not ment by fryday nor lent
By the fast of Bernard / or yet of our ladye
Neyther yet of the clouted cloyst[r]ers aduent cloystrers] cloysters 1548
For scripture appointeth no tyme properly
300 Neyther yet of meates maketh he dyuersitie
But byddeth th[e] faste, thy fleshe for to tame the] thy 1548
At all tymes when-soeuer thy flesh prycketh the
Thus fasting, thou honourest Gods holy name. superstycious fastynge is agaynst gods honour.


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Knoledge

And now for the holy supper of the lorde
305 Let paul[e] be your teacher in each degree letter obscured
Examen your conscience / let your fayth, accorde
Before ye presume of so hygh a mysterye
For in thys point, fayth onely must be your eye
Fayth must be your tast, and all your wittes frame
310 It is in your fayth, that ye see Gods bodye
To the honour and prayse of hys holy name. How we shuld receyue the supper of the lorde.

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Knoledge

Thynke not that ye do eate hym with your teath
Thynke not that ye se hym with your bodely eye
But eate hym and drynke hym in spyrite and fayth
315 For he, yet lyuyng / dyd giue his body
Unto hys discyples, and sayd, eate ye
Thys is my body: yet hys body playne
Before their eyes was present corporally
Theyr fayth dyd suffyse: their bodely brayne we do not eate Christis body nor drinke his bloud but in spiryte by fayth.


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Knoledge

320 Let fayth therfore you gouuerne and lede
And in your harte remembre hys passyon
And that he dyed in very dede
Leuyng to vs for a commemoration
Hys blessed body, of such kynd and facion
325 That in spyrite and fayth we shuld receyue the same
Thus doyng / you take it to your saluation
To the honour and prayse of Gods holy name. That we shulde before all things beleue in hys passyon.


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Simplicite

I pray God thanke you with all myne harte
In these thynges my consyence is appeased
330 And in all other I trust sone afterwarde
My harte by you shall be well eased
The blyndenes that in me was, seased
Is almost clered and set in frame
And you I do thanke, whome it hath pleased
335 To teach me to honour Gods holy name The thankes of simplycite for the good counsell of knoledge.

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Knoledge

Gyue the laude to God, as moost worthy is
And not vnto man, b[u]t vnto hys name
And praye we for the Kynges hyghnes
That Gods gospell hath so in frame
340 That all we maye see the truth from the vayne
That all we all errours maye worthely blame
That all we hys kyngdom at the last may attayne
In blysse all tog[e]ther to prayse hys holy name. together] toghther 1548n[o]tnot] ndt 1548 to man but to god be all glory



Finis.